As Iron Sharpens Iron

An ongoing and online discussion between: an Orthodox informed Ecumaniac without a denominational home, an ordained Baptist youth pastor with an open mind, a Calvinist worship leader/seminarian with a staggering vocabulary and ability to make a point, and a cradle Catholic with a love/hate relationship to Rome.

Wednesday, November 09, 2005

Truth Defined!

Mr. White,
You raise an intruiging question, and one that Modernity has circumlocuted at great expense, (after the even greater expense of the Wars of Religion). Provided yourself and Pauper Frater promise not to burn my peasants and slaughter my villages, so that I am forced to emigrate to the New World, I will tell you that I do not think the Filioque is necessary for Christian orthodoxy. The scriptural case for the proposed revision pointed to by Pauper Frater is much stronger than that for Filioque itself, which depends on a logical extension of the economic (or historical or missional) relationship between the members of the Trinity into the eternal (or ontological) relationship. The Orthodox have been sounding this note since Chalcedon, and it is high time that we recognized that it is a dashed good point. The scripture says "though," who are we to add that it is also "from?"
Augustine, on the other hand, was not ourselves, but AUGUSTINE when he decided that it was also "from," and thus our difficulty.

But let us proceed to the main event: I cannot and will not turn on my Protestant loyalties and embrace all seven ecumenical councils, principally because, as you all well know, Mary as "Theotokos" (Mother of God) takes a dangerously speculative step with regard to Christology. (I might add, however, against the austere tastes of the Reformed, that I have no particular problem with Iconography in houses of worship.)

Finally, I feel I must say that the Foundational Truths to which you refer are, in great measure, philosophical ones which the ancient world held unquestioned, and which, in our own time, make the subject of truth a difficult one. As an example, several of the truths which stand, as it were, behind the 3 Creeds are:

The Unity of Reality, The Existence of the Spiritual World, the Knowability of Reality, and, further on, the Reliability of Scripture- (whatever, ecumenically speaking, that is).
I might ask, as a subset of your own question, whether we all agree on these pre-doctrinal theses?

Sir R.F. Burton


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, hey did you happen to notice that sent you a weight loss pill advertisement in the form of a comment?!?!?!?!?! What's this world coming to??????

Also, Aaron, I'm pretty sure you can't be year of the Monkey since I think I'm year of the monkey and you are one year younger than me.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh wait, I'm wrong. I just looked it up and apparently the Chinese new year is Jan 22!! We were born in the same chinese year! weyuhwd. However, according to the chinese zodiac I am an earth dragon and you are an earth pig. hehehehe.

3:59 PM  
Blogger The Poor Blogger said...

Well, first I'll have to figure out what the heck you're talking about.

Regarding the Theotokos, as with all Marian dogma, it is really about Christ. The title was given to Mary to affirm that Jesus is, indeed, God. Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus' mother. Thus, Mary is the Mother of God.

Regarding your more abstract questions, I had never attempted to find unifying themes from the Creeds. They have always appeared to me to be multiple revealed Truths, agreed on by the Church and organized together in a recitable fashion. That said:

Unity of Reality: I don't see this in the Creeds, except for the Unity of God. Yet, the created is something other and, thus, not part of God, who is Whole in Himself.

Existence of the Spiritual World: I agree, as well as the Sensible or Physical world.

Knowability of Reality: I don't see it, although I don't think it denies it.

Reliability of Scripture: I would use the term "revelation" or "tradition", but I can go with scripture. And I would agree insofar as to say that God (the HOly Spirit) has been faithful in Revealing Himself through His People. I'm less certain about the product which came through the filter of said People, however.

9:13 AM  

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